Raw Footage Released of Phuket Jet Ski Scam-Gun Incident

[qt:http://thailandlandofsmiles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/video.mp4 470 270]

So, after I made my post yesterday responding to Gavin Hill and Tim Wright a commenter by the name of Trustyswordoftruth commented on the article More Trouble for Big Trouble in Thailand and left a link. The link was to the raw footage of the gun incident that has been in question for well over a month.

This link goes to the Big Trouble in Thailand Youtube account that Gavin Hill has previously released raw footage to. So I can only assume that Gavin Hill or someone else related to the production of Big Trouble in Thailand is Trustyswordoftruth. Either way I’m not sure why the video was released because I believe it supports everything I have been saying all along.

The video clearly shows JJ laughing and acting in a joking manner with the marines as he brings out the rifle, The audio of JJ laughing is cut from the aired footage completely.  The marines were never held at gunpoint as originally stated by Tim Wright previously,  the rifle was always pointing at the ground. After the Rifle is put away JJ and the Marines are hanging out and talking about various things including motorcycles, t-shirts and Muay Thai.

Tim Wright was quoted in Camera director of ‘Big Trouble in Thailand’ makes ‘tactical withdrawal as saying:

The Thais are trying to say my men were not threatened or held at gunpoint.  But by doing this they are questioning my integrity. I do not like my integrity being questioned especially by a two bit crook.

No marines can be heard as being shocked or upset at the situation, in fact they are as calm and reserved after the gun shows up as they were before. One marine can be heard asking JJ very calmly what sort of gun it is as JJ is walking back towards the house. The raw footage plays out nothing like the aired footage that you can watch below.

Clearly the marines were not in any way threatened by a gun and they didn’t react in any way that would show them as threatened. It’s amazing what a job those editors can do to make a joking situation into a harrowing ordeal.

While JJ may be a scammer and a thief I don’t think it’s right that he was arrested and charged with a felony based on bad footage cut in a way to make it seem more dramatic for reality TV. The producers of Big Trouble in Thailand shouldn’t feel good about it either.

If you compare the raw video footage above to the footage cut and aired on Bravo TV below I think you’ll find it’s not apples to apples but more like apples to water buffalo.

Watch both videos and come to your own conclusion. I stand behind everything I’ve had to say on this matter and I think I’ve backed it all up pretty well with the evidence given. What do you think?

Gun Scene starts at the 6:22 mark

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46 Responses to Raw Footage Released of Phuket Jet Ski Scam-Gun Incident
  1. Mike
    October 9, 2009 | 2:11 am

    Talen, thanks for updating things from your perspective today & yesterday. I and I am sure, many of your regular readers, have enjoyed reading this saga unfold. Its good that Gavin and Tim came back too you as well. Since they didn’t actually have too.

    As to the rights and wrongs of everything- well in my book the jury are still out on this one.

    The facts experienced by people like myself who live here on the ground confirm scams operate here all the time, as they do in most countries which attract holidaymakers. It also confirms that many Thais do indeed have illegal firearms. Of course as an expat or long term visitor you tend to be better informed and avoid such situations.

    Equally editors of raw film footage whether its a wildlife documentary on Nat Geo or reality TV on Bravo can indeed make things appear as they are not.

    Personally I think this has run its course and while I do believe you have done some excellent detective work I fancy we will never totally get to the bottom of the issues exposed. Just like the scams in Phuket, Bangkok or Pattaya will continue while ever there are punters around and even as the dust continues to settle from this particular incident.

    A good example here is the BKK airport scams which continue unabated despite action by the authorities.

    One positive I do see from all of this is that more folk just might be aware of what Thailand can be like behind the smiles, something those of us who live and visit here regularly can confirm.

    Finally can I just say that I think it is fair to say that blog posts exposing inaccuracies in what is allegedly said and presented in the media are valuable contributions to the debate and for that I thank you for your hard work trying to unravel this mystery.
    Mike´s last blog ..Thai TV Commercial-Whatever Will be Will be My ComLuv Profile

    • Gavin Hill
      October 9, 2009 | 4:23 am

      Hi Talen –
      So, you cracked the case hey? Solved the mystery?
      With quite a bit of help along the way from the trustyswordoftruth it would appear ;-)
      Mike’s correct in saying neither Tim nor I needed to respond to you, and I think you have been unnecessarily adversarial and impolite, given our contribution to your blog.
      I think you have been confused as to who the ‘enemy’ is at times.
      You do owe Tim an apology. He was acting in the very best interests of his men and very bravely. Some of your comments do suggest naivete as to the way things work on the ground in situations like this – in Thailand and many other places too for that matter.
      I know you’ll get very defensive about this, but it would be magnanimous of you if you did.
      Vera Productions are threatening to sue – they don’t like the release of any footage which shows how they doctored sound which contributed to a man’s arrest and imprisonment.
      Now, whoever uploaded that video to You Tube did so in the public interest – because I would imagine they believe in professionalism, balance and fairness, that factual entertainment shouldn’t be at the expense of factual accuracy.
      I would imagine they also believe that their credibility and that of the series is compromised by factual inaccuracy, attempts at fabrication, misleading information (288 Brits “killed” last year in Thailand) and the unnecessary dramatisation of very real events, such as JJ and the Marines. Mispronunciation of place names is just pathetic.
      But I expect they felt powerless to do anything about it in the face of rampant sensationalism, disregard for old fashioned journalistic values and threatened legal might.
      The fact remains, however it was (mis)represented by Vera Productions/Virgin Media, that JJ introduced a gun into a very tense situation (the audio over the gun shots came from a scuffle between JJ and one of the Marines that wasn’t cut into the broadcast programme, but should have been). The gun was threatening, although I don’t believe the line of v/o should have said that.
      As the creator, producer, director and cameraman of ‘Big Trouble In Thailand’ but with little or no input into the editing process my misgivings, or should I say fury, began when Virgin Media at the last minute changed the working title ‘Thai Cops’ to ‘Big Trouble In Tourist Thailand’. I complained – in the strongest possible terms – that this would be a slap in the face of the Thai authorities who so kindly gave me such unrivaled and unique access. If I’d said we were making ‘Big Trouble In Tourist Thailand’ I seriously doubt we would have been permitted to do what we did. Had the title not been so provocative – personally I saw it as an attack on Thailand’s tourism industry – and had the JJ scenes been edited in a more balanced manner (as had been the case in the rough cut I was sent to look at) then I think the series would have received less adverse attention and certainly attracted less controversy. I might not be facing arrest and imprisonment there. After all, it is only a very minor series being watched largely by young males who amount to the population of a small english town – at most.
      But … yes, then there is You Tube which does make a difference these days.
      But people have got a bit carried away nevertheless.
      Me? I’m just a stickler for truth insofar as it’s possible to tell it, and getting the balance right. Thai Cops was also my idea and it had enormous potential. It was a tricky proposition, I’ll admit, but everything was going swimmingly until the content we’d gathered in the field was handed over to Vera Productions in London. Everyone was on board – from JJ and the Marines to the Thai police and prison authorities.
      Regardless of what anyone might think of JJ, there was absolutely no justification for faking the audio.
      Though I was not responsible for doing so, I do apologise to the viewers that my idea for a highly-watchable Thai police series came to this.
      I think it’s about time that reality TV got its house in order and production companies opened a dictionary and looked up the world “integrity”. This way we who work in the industry, in this genre, can hold our heads high in the knowledge we’re not disrespecting the TV viewer who would, I’m sure, like to believe that reality TV can either be trusted, or if not, carry a warning in the way cigarette packets do – along the lines of your summation Talen … don’t believe all you see or hear.
      So the truth was out there, wasn’t it?

      • Talen
        October 9, 2009 | 6:06 am

        I wasn’t trying to crack a case or solve a mystery…I was trying to get to the truth of the matter of all the inconsistencies that didn’t sit right with me as well as others after watching the aired footage.

        Quite frankly if you would have said just half of what you have said in your comment to this post I would have dropped the matter some time ago. Satisfied that the production company in the UK was at fault and I would have gone after them. Instead you continued with the party line. I would have loved nothing more than to write an article about how you got thrown under the bus but that’s kinda hard to do when you are also playing the part of the bus driver.

        And while I do appreciate the fact that you and Tim have commented here you did so more in an attempt to admonish me for sharing my opinion. An opinion I might add that was spot on in much of what I had to say.

        You are right I owe many thanks to whoever it was that uploaded all of the raw video ;) But I don’t think they expected me to take the time to watch and compare each segment well over 20 times.Nor do I think it was expected that I would find missing audio and moved audio to go along with all of the cuts. I don’t think anyone thought that the raw video would be dissected.

        Gavin, I truly hope that the investigation into you and your production company in Thailand gets dropped. While I think the Thai authorities jumped the gun in arresting JJ they have done more of the same with you and yours.

        Unfortunately this is the worst aspect of Thailand, The Thai authorities have to save face and point fingers because everyone knows nothing bad happens in Thailand.

        Maybe one day that aspect of Thai society will be a distant memory but from what I’ve seen and experienced I highly doubt it.

        I highly doubt reality TV will change for the better either. People in the 21st century need immediate pleasure and fast paced action. It might be better if we could just bury the TV’s in the sand next to the Thai authorities heads.

    • Talen
      October 9, 2009 | 6:11 am

      Mike, You are correct they didn’t have to respond here but I think if you re-read Gavin and Tim’s comments they came back more to admonish me than add to the discussion.

      I know full well about the scams and illegal firearms. I have said all along I have no doubt as to what sort of man JJ is. But throwing a man in Jail for ripping off tourists is a whole lot different than throwing a man in jail for holding people at gun point. While JJ deserves jail for his scams it’s not ok to go about that jail time through a felony gun charge.

      This matter has definitely concluded but I disagree that we won’t ever get down to the bottom of what really happened. I think we already have.

      Unfortunately between the documentary , the news, and all the discussion on the internet the only persons actually informed are those in the know anyway. The scams will continue in one fashion or another and the tourists who haven’t researched their destination will still get duped and when it is glaring enough the police will act. It’s a perpetual circle that I don’t see ending any time soon.

      The whole time the notion of saving face will be played out time and time again while the Thai’s bury their heads in the sand.

  2. Martyn
    October 10, 2009 | 2:32 am

    What do I think….You can put away your magnifying glass, let the bloodhound grow fat and slam the book shut on this case…you’ve come up with all the evidence and a big well done to you.

    I’d agree that Gavin and Tim’s comments have been more an ‘attack’ on you rather than a meeting at the table but maybe now is the time to let sleeping dogs lie and move on. Well done for your excellent journalism and dogged detective work, in fact give the bloodhound a bone.
    Martyn´s last blog ..Thailand Blogs – September 09 Review My ComLuv Profile

  3. Oneditorial
    October 10, 2009 | 1:49 pm

    A hot debate is bound to create curiosity, never mind that the topic is becoming rather stagnant. It certainly is good for the programme’s rating. To my mind, I see nothing excessively infra dig about the programme, aside from the free amusement. To some extent, it entertained me in a depressing sort of way.
    Oneditorial´s last blog ..French daddy and his Thai rent boy My ComLuv Profile

  4. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 2:04 am

    I think what you don’t realise is that all the time you were being given clear pointers by the people in the know about the JJ incident as to what actually happened and what was shown or rather heard. But I rather think vanity got in the way.
    Gavin Hill even congratulated you on spotting the move of the sound clip as I guess he more anxious then anyone that the truth gets out.
    And to be honest at the end of the day, as a viewer, I am not unhappy at the impression this little cameo presented. The marine was held against his will. A gun was produced (motive?), the Marines were threatened and the principal character was a lowlife and a scammer.
    But wait. I can almost hear your protest. ‘But the gun was not pointed at the Marines it was pointed at the ground’. Go tell that to the Marines as they say.
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

    • Talen
      October 11, 2009 | 3:45 am

      Complete and utter nonsense Andrew. Clear pointers? Ah I see, if you don’t get it right at first come around after the fact and take the credit for being in the know. Maybe you should go back and read what you have written on the matter and then look at all the quotes in your own writings as well as those in the comments on your blog, my blog and several internet forums.

      You, Gavin and Tim Wright all claimed the marines were held at gun point did you not? They weren’t. Yeah those poor marines looked so threatened. And what else do you do after being threatened by a man with a rifle? Apparently if you are British marines you hang out and talk about t-shirts and Muay Thai. And then Your superior comes and straightens it all out then shakes the hand of the man who threatened you…no, I’m sorry, held you at gun point…sounds much better doesn’t it?

      I find it funny that a journalist such as yourself can take umbrage at a lowly blogger asking questions and questioning those “in the know”. Seems to me the only thing you did was defend the undefendable.

      There was never a doubt as to what kind of man JJ is…the doubt was about the others involved.

  5. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 2:26 am

    Martyn: What has all this dogged ‘detective work’ by Talen revealed by the way.
    That the Marines were not threatened?
    That JJ did not produce a gun?
    That JJ is not a slimebag scammer.
    That it really costs 35,000 baht to fix minor and more likely old damage on a jet ski.

    No it has not. But the film-makers, despite the bad edit, have shown a typical scenario and we should all be grateful that it has pissed off the Thai authorities. Maybe, just maybe, they are doing something. Some posters here have suggested that Talen should call it a day. Hear, bloody, hear!
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

    • Talen
      October 11, 2009 | 3:51 am

      Typical scenario Andrew? Never typical for a tourist to go back to the jet ski owners house. Oh, wait, he was kidnapped and held at gunpoint. He also admitted to getting into an accident with the jetski…not once, 3 times.

      And it wasn’t a bad edit but a nice fabrication to change the entire tone of the incident.

      I’m sorry I’m not the journalist you seem to think you are…don’t believe your own hype.

  6. Gavin Hill
    October 11, 2009 | 5:54 am

    Talen – Stephen Cleary at Paknam Web appears to be the Dr Watson to your Sherlock Holmes – what do you make of what he says JJ has to say at 2:17? Or has Stephen mis-translated the last thing JJ says before getting the gun? If Stephen’s translation is correct, then JJ’s motive for introducing the gun into the argument is clear. Hence why it was all the more unnecessary and inexcusable for Vera Productions, makers of programmes in Channel 4’s respected Dispatches series, to have faked the sound, resulting in the complaint to OFCOM, UK TV’s regulatory body.

    Re: ‘Big Trouble in Thailand’ (TV Show from UK)
    Here it is, the raw footage of the JJ Gun Scene. It has been released on YouTube by BigTroubleThailand. JJ may be a scammer, but this raw footage clearly shows that Vera Productions edited the scene for ’special effects’. JJ was jailed (before let out on bail, and still is on bail) for this dramatized scene.

    Thanks to Talen over at http://www.thailandlandofsmiles.com for his incessant enquiries into the raw footage, which perhaps lead to the raw footage finally being released.

    JJ may be a scammer, but to dramatize a scene which leads to a person being imprisoned is just as bad, if not worse. It is doubtful that Gavin Hill the director/producer was in charge of this, that was probably the works of the office back home in the UK. And if this is true, Gavin ought to be real pished off.

    JJ is threatening, however, but only his own language. JJ speaks the Southern Thai dialect throughout. It is difficult to understand, but here is what what he roughly says:

    0:12 “Let’s go show them the damages done” (JJ uses the impolite term ‘mun’ as in ‘them idiots’ but this is normal in the south, in particular)

    2:17 “Mother f****** won’t mess with me” (this is just before he goes for the air-gun)

    Anyway, here it is, the truth at last (around 2:30)

    • Talen
      October 11, 2009 | 12:18 pm

      Gavin, look at the raw footage again. We see JJ walking towards the back of the shop then there is a cut and he is walking up with the gun.

      Do you seriously contend that is a rolling shot as well? He says motherfucker while walking back and he is smiling and laughing while walking up…what happened during the cut?

      It’s nice that some people think that it was only the production companies doing and you got screwed in the process. I believe Vera did screw you but you helped them out by defending the scene as you did from the beginning. It wasn’t until people started talking that you changed your tune.

  7. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 9:39 am

    Talen. Your blog is not about journalism. It never was. If you had been a journalist you would have come out of your shack and contacted all parties concerned before launching into print on the internet. You do have a phone?
    You admit yourself after Gavin Hill posted to you: “Quite frankly if you would have said just half of what you have said in your comment to this post I would have dropped the matter some time ago.”
    Quite frankly this admission says it all.
    You have not been magnanimous to Gavin Hill or even attempted at an apology to Tim Wright.
    I did see the footage as well before putting pen to paper. The same footage you are finally seeing now. Yes it does show that the piece was edited for effect, a fact which GH was at pains to point out yonks ago!!
    I also spoke many times at length to Gavin Hill and also to Sergeant Tim Wright to satisfy myself beyond any doubt that (a) the Marine Jack was taken and held against his will (2) that the marines were in a threatening situation (3) that JJ produced the gun and (4) that JJ was scamming. I am satisfied on all those points. I also met the Thai fixer btw.
    It is of concern to me but less concern to me than to Gavin of course that Vera introduced a few extra squeals or whatever.
    Its the same as if I sent the same story to The Times and the SUN (which I do regularly). Its going to look more dramatic in the SUN,and I will say, why the hell did they put my name on this, but essentially it is the same story with a mystery quote appearing from no-where!
    And that my dear boy is all this is about, nothing more and nothing less.
    There is clearly a dispute betwen Gavin Hill and the production company. That often happens when the producer/director is not there for the edit, a very unusual circumstance but now maybe becoming more common with budgets as they are.
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

    • Talen
      October 11, 2009 | 12:11 pm

      Funny Andrew, Before people started looking into the scene, and I was not alone, the story was much different. I love how the story has changed though…white hats all around.

      Why would Gavin stake his reputation on the fact that the scene was not staged for dramatic effect before the fallout and now after you, he and everyone’s mother knew what Vera was doing and it was shameful and you had to let the people know.

      As for journalism I never claimed to be a journalist but I did use exact quotes from all concerned…so are you telling me now those exact quotes would have been any different if I would have called. We both know the answer to that. You got the exclusive Andrew and it read like a blamefest of woes.

      I like how you categorize the cuts in the scene as adding a few extra squeals…and wasn’t it you that concluded that the Tattooed Thai Mafia kidnapped the marine and held all of the marines at gunpoint? Seems you have a flare for the dramatic as well.

  8. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 9:58 am

    Oh dear. JJ saying ‘Mother fucker wont mess with me’ before producing the gun and the scene in which a Marine has to be held back from having a go at JJ seem to have been lost on the London producers.
    In fact they have tried to enhance a situation without appearing to realise they had the stuff in front of them all the time to do it and retain complete factuality.
    Well I knew about the Marine having a go, and the police being there after the arrival of Sergeant Wright, but thanks to Steven Clearly for the motherfucker bit.
    The question is will the next jet ski confrontation, which makes JJ look like a ladyboy, be edited out of the final programme in the BTIT series!
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

  9. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 1:14 pm

    Talen:”the Tattooed Thai Mafia kidnapped the marine and held all of the marines at gunpoint?” seems alright to me. Now we can add, “after JJ went for his gun saying ‘Motherfucker not going to mess with me!” :-)
    I mean are you saying the Marines did not feel threatened by the gun. If so I can refer you only back to the statements of the people you did not talk to but who have since made them here.
    Tim Wright and Gavin Hill.
    (Oh wait is it the angle of the gun?) You might want to ask Gavin what JJ had been arrested and released for the day of or day before filming and how many guns were on his premises, which he was not allowed to film. Oh I guess they were all BBs!
    As for typical jet ski scam, you seem to dispute this saying in this case the Marine was taken to JJ’s private house. (Obviously for tea and scones)
    It was not his private house it was a work complex in the back of beyond. Just speak to a few Embassies here about the different things which have happened to victims of these scammers! 150 caaes in Koh Samui in the first 4 months of this year! I know because it is part of my job to monitor these things.
    And as for the mafia well I believed JJ explained the hierarchy of the Patong Beach mafia in quite detail illustrating what he can do, and not do.
    What he can do is actually on the film there as he slams his fist into his hand.
    Nope Talen. I think I got this one right from day one.
    That comes with doing a little research on the real issue. There appear to be a host of things you do not know yet you whinge about people not telling you. Gavin is understating when he suggests you are naive.
    I agree when Gavin says it was a shitty and unethical edit and that they could actually have produced a better film if they used properly what they had.
    But I’m more concerned about the victims of these scams.
    You seem ambivalent about JJ btw. Do you think he was scamming or not?
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

    • Talen
      October 11, 2009 | 1:37 pm

      I’m sure it does seem alright to you Andrew…it’s the drama that counts right?

      Yes, those marines looked mortified as they calmly talked with JJ about t-shirts and Muay Thai. Amazing that myself and any other normal human being wouldn’t be as friendly with someone who supposedly kidnapped one of their own and then ” held them all at gunpoint”.

      What JJ was arrested for before or how many guns he has has absolutely no bearing on the incident at hand. As for the type of man JJ is …I have been quite clear on my feelings about that. The fact remains the gun in question was a BB gun and some people wanted to dispute that fact.

      As for the scam being typical…hardly. The scams typically happen on the beach not at a house or work complex 3 miles away. Argue it till you are blue in the face and I will provide evidence to the contrary all day long.

      Of course you THINK you got this right from day one…unfortunately for you not many people would agree with your assessment.

      I did more than a little research and unlike you I asked real questions, you just defended the film makers. I’ve been quite clear as to my stance on JJ and I have been very transparent in everything I have had to say. You can claim I am naive all you like but the facts are the facts.

      “Gavin says it was a shitty and unethical edit and that they could actually have produced a better film if they used properly what they had.”

      Nicely said after the fallout…do you remember his direct quote before any film was dissected?. It’s on your blog…

      You claim you are only concerned about the victims of scammers, it seems to me you are more concerned about how you look while reporting the dramatic news than about any victims.

  10. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 1:22 pm

    Talen: And finally the court case against JJ you will find is probably more piss and wind. Do you think the Marines will bother to testify at their own expense. No. They’ll just warn anyone and everyone they know who is coming to Thailand about the scams, as Tim Wright said. This is Thailand. You have a blog about it.
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

  11. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 1:36 pm

    Sorry Talen. One final point I need to address. You claim you use full quotes from people but do not explain that you then totally quote them in the wrong context to try and make them fit your argument.

    This from your site over a month ago when Gavin has already complained about the famous audio cut. This is what Gavin says to me which you are quoting from my site.

    “I do have problems with the way this show is being put together but the gun incident is quite clear. It is a rolling shot, there are no cuts except when JJ tells me to stop filming”.

    Now you Talen come in with this: “This statement is false on it’s face as there is a clear cut in the original documentary when JJ goes to get his gun. If you watch the raw footage at the end of this post you can see exactly where the cut happens when compared with the final cut of the documentary. As a matter of fact the raw footage shows JJ getting along with all of the marines in the raw footage that the gun scene is cut into”.

    Actually I was talking to Gavin Hill about the original footage because JJ was claiming that the film conpany had introduced the gun shot from somewhere else completely.

    I wanted to know if Gavin had stopped the camera at all durng the gun scene and re-started. The answer was no and that it was a continuous rolling shot. He followed JJ into his hut and out again all the way. So we knew the gun scene was not inserted.

    Now that is real distortion!

    I tried to explain this to you at the time but you were having nothing of it.
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

    • Talen
      October 11, 2009 | 1:43 pm

      I have not quoted anyone out of context my friend…you are really taking the piss now.

      And I’m still having nothing of it Andrew. The raw footage is above …you may want to get some glasses to watch it as there is no rolling shots either in the raw or aired footage.

      The camera absolutely stops and starts again. This my friend is fact that cannot be denied as the evidence is right in front of you.

  12. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 1:50 pm

    Whoopsie. One more:

    Talen: “Gavin, look at the raw footage again. We see JJ walking towards the back of the shop then there is a cut and he is walking up with the gun”.

    Just thought I’d repeat this here. And wait for any suggestions. Maybe even Talen using some of the clues provided can work it out.

    Yes the footage was rolling up to the hut. Then cut and did not rolling as he came out of the hut again.

    Now in this Comedy or Errors and conspiracies who can come up with an explanation for this cut.

    And no Gavin did not go for a pee! :-)
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

    • Talen
      October 11, 2009 | 2:17 pm

      Starting to ramble a bit Andrew…maybe you should take a breather…If you are trying to say that is when JJ said no filming you would be wrong as that happened later.

      Please to show me where the full rolling footage is with no cuts….thought as much.

      • Andrew Drummond
        October 11, 2009 | 2:23 pm

        Well as you have not guessed. JJ had his armoury in the hut and would not let Gavin film it.
        Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

        • Talen
          October 11, 2009 | 3:13 pm

          So, was the armory used to hold anyone at gunpoint that day?

          And how exactly does that information change the fact that it wasn’t a rolling shot when it has always been claimed to be a rolling shot?

        • Andrew Drummond
          October 12, 2009 | 1:05 am

          Oh dear. There was a rolling shot right up to the hut door.
          Gavin was asked to stop filming as there were a number of guns inside. He saw but did not film.
          The camera resumed the roll as JJ came out of the hut.
          In the final versio from what I recall there was a cut back to the Marines, maaybe two.
          One had to be used as a cutaway, a normal process in this case to link the two0 rollng shots and the other used to break up a long roll.
          Breaking up shots is a practice used by all documentary makers and you see it everyday on your TV news.
          If you do not film cutaways (often things like people playing with their hands, drumming on a desk, it is very difficult to edit a film.
          In this case they panned back to the Marines.
          So in fact the Marine shot was technically true either as this was a ‘one camera’ shoot.
          Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

        • Andrew Drummond
          October 12, 2009 | 1:08 am

          I repeat the marine cutaway must also have been taken from somewhere else on the film, because this was a one camera shoot.
          Oh dear. Do I feel a new expose on tv ethics coming on!:-)
          Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

  13. Andrew Drummond
    October 11, 2009 | 1:58 pm

    Gavin had complained to the production company about the edit long before you raised it here Talen. Thats the first thing you should consider.
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

    • Talen
      October 11, 2009 | 2:20 pm

      Then why was it, when all of this initially came up, that Gavin defended the scene as aired and said the scene played out as filmed?

      • Andrew Drummond
        October 11, 2009 | 2:26 pm

        Gavin defended himself from claims that the gun scene was inserted into the film from somewhere else made by JJ.
        As I have said I prefer Gavin and Tim’s integrity here.
        Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

        • Andrew Drummond
          October 12, 2009 | 1:09 am

          I repeat Gavin has never defended the audio cut. Show me where?
          Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

        • Talen
          October 12, 2009 | 8:20 am

          Never said he did defend the audio cut…he defended the whole scene as aired. Then on top of that said “The sequence with JJ was NOT staged and I hope he is not in jail based solely on his contribution to the series. JJ was a willing participant and at the very least I am grateful for his contribution to the programme.”

          Hopes he doesn’t get jailed? grateful for his participation?

          Not likely things to say about a man that held innocent tourists at gunpoint.

          It still amazes me how everyone involved with this has no problems being kind to a man whi has be characterized as a ” drunken lout of the Thai tattooed Mafia”

  14. Andrew Drummond
    October 12, 2009 | 4:06 am

    “So, was the armory used to hold anyone at gunpoint that day?”
    Answer: Yes.
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

  15. Talen
    October 12, 2009 | 8:27 am

    Obviously you are still confused as to the layout of the film and the raw footage Andrew. The camera follows JJ to the house after the BB gun makes it’s appearance not before. The footage is right above.

    So how many weapons in that armory were used to threaten and hold the marines at gunpoint that day? Why was jj laughing when he came out with the BB gun? Why was that laughter edited out?

    If JJ had this armory and he was bent on menacing and threatening marines I wonder why he picked a BB gun to do so…and I wonder why Marines felt so threatened by a BB gun?

  16. Gavin Hill
    October 12, 2009 | 12:32 pm

    Talen – really, you should be gracious in defeat.
    Game, set and match to Andrew. Gotta hand it to him.
    What a mauling!
    At the risk of mixing my metaphors you were out for the count on the canvas there. I kept saying to myself stay down Talen, stay down!!
    By the way, there was a British inmate we didn’t interview in Samui jail who was awaiting trial for armed robbery (on Samui) – with a TOY gun – not even a BB gun.
    So, should the Thai police drop their prosecution of him? After all, it was just a toy gun as it turned out. Would you like the no. for Samui police because I’m not sure if they’re as avid readers of your blog as Andrew and I are? But I wouldn’t advise having a go at them for not being able to tell a real gun from a toy one. I guess you’re prepared to give the terrified victim a break for not knowing a sawn-off from a complete Koch.
    Talen – you sound like the sort of person who will never admit they’re wrong, ever, even to the point of looking silly. Perhaps it’s a face thing.
    But you are demeaning yourself and I’m sure disappointing readers of your blog by trying to excuse what happened before my camera – especially when it comes to guns which are nasty things.
    It won’t lessen the respect readers of your blog must have for your tenacity if you just say sorry. In fact it may earn you added respect. It takes guts to do that, I know, but you do owe Andrew, Tim and I an apology.
    So, can I hold my breath …?

  17. Talen
    October 12, 2009 | 1:18 pm

    See Gavin this is the problem with you and Andrew…it’s not about winning or losing it’s about the truth.

    I owe neither you Tim, or Andrew apologies of any sort and I do think thou doth protest too much.

    Funny how you Tim and Andrew are so up in arms about Marines being held at gunpoint but neither you nor Tim showed the footage of this menacing attack to the police that showed up that day…now why is that? Don’t bother I already know the answer ” the police wouldn;t do anything” The police are all corrupt” The police are all involved in it”

    We both know why and by the amount of emails I’ve gotten my readers know why too. Seems most of the discussions around the net are running the same way as well.

    It’s also kinda of funny that I, being so far beneath you and Andrew, can keep your interest for so long. I’ve already said that I’m done writing about the incident…it’s you and Andrew that keep knocking it back. And if you can call that toothless jabbering that Andrew has been doing a mauling then it’s no wonder you felt so threatened by a BB gun.

    • Andrew Drummond
      October 13, 2009 | 2:48 am

      Dum dee dum. I am merely correcting some of the assumptions and glaring errors you are making without possession of the facts and the marshalling of those facts to present a totally different picture which actually is worse than what the production people did in this case.

      I think your sceneario is this. Anyway you’re right. Tim, Gavin and I all owe you an apology. This then is what unfolded according to you and we really have to a agree :-)

      “It was all a laugh. Jack the Marine was so guilty for having wrecked the jetski he walked three miles voluntarily to JJ’s private house to make up for it. Later the marines joined him also to apologise to JJ because Jack thought a group apology would be better.
      The marines and JJ were all joking together. The Marines were so relieved. One Marine had to be held back from kissing JJ on the cheek. Then JJ, with no history of firearms offences dating back to the day before, brought out a toy gun and they all had another laugh. The Marine put his hand up to smashing up the boat even though he did not notice it and rather thought his leg would have been in the way if something had hit him side on. Nevertheless was more than happy to fork out 35,000 baht after admitting three times that he did it. In fact everybody was so happy that Tim and JJ shook on it in a spirit of jolly good will.
      Sergeant Wright had had a little experience with fibre glass and thought that if the stain was brown it might probably be old. Actually JJ who also went on camera earlier to say brown stains indicated old damage, said that in this case however it was not.
      He was after all a normal human being. Tim Wright was not his father and was much mistaken for thinking him to be a crook. But that was also said as a joke. The ‘Fuck you’ exchange was mere friendly banter.
      In fact quite clearly the Marines know fuck all about boats because they had smashed up five other jetskis in Phuket and already had to pay for the damages. Quite clearly this shows that these guys are not safe on water.
      The evil production company put a different spin on this entirely and suggested the Marines were threatened. When the Sergeant ordered Jack to leave JJ did absolutely nothing to stop him.
      The gun incident was a joke. JJ was not trying to show the mothfuckers that they could not mess with him. He knew the Marines must like guns and just wanted to show them his toy gun.
      The whole thing is just a travesty of justice. Poor JJ could go to jail just for producing a toy. Shameless.
      Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

  18. Andrew Drummond
    October 13, 2009 | 3:00 am

    Oh and JJ was a law abiding citizan, so law abiding that he even had an uncle who was the local police chief. And the two officer who arrived at the scene nodded in agreement.
    And stated JJ: “We are all men. Not ladyboys. Not katoeys. Men!” And the two policeman and Marine Jack nodded in agreement.
    “My first jetskis were bought for me by the daughter of a Yakuza. I want to thank the Royal Navy for helping buy my next one!”
    Glad to oblige said Sergeant Tim. Must get the boys to train up on their watercraft.
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

  19. Andrew Drummond
    October 13, 2009 | 3:06 am

    PS Mothfuckers is a new one on me too. But I quite like it
    Andrew Drummond´s last blog ..Handbags at dawn! – British Airways in Bangkok My ComLuv Profile

  20. Gavin Hill
    October 13, 2009 | 5:32 am

    Yep, that’s how it was.
    And bloggers are the new journalists Andrew, so we’d better get used to hearing the “truth” in the way people like Talen see it from now on.
    Media meltdown 2009 – don’t you just love it?
    Thanks for the best laugh I’ve had in a while. Really cheered me up that. :-)
    Talen – do take a leaf out of Andrew’s book and try and work a bit of humour into your inevitable riposte.
    Andrew – thanks for putting the smile into thailandlandofsmiles – it’s really brightened the place up!

  21. Talen
    October 13, 2009 | 8:41 am

    And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, the great Andrew Drummond and Gavin Hill. I think you boys have left no doubt as to the kind of journalistic professionals you really are.

  22. Rowley Birken
    October 15, 2009 | 11:37 pm

    JJ’s eyes were glazed & his speech was slurred. He was clearly p*ssed or ‘yabbad-up’. I have no doubt that the incident with the gun was genuine.

    The apparrent ease by which the Marines conducted themselves may give a false impression to the keyboard commandos loitering online. Their reaction on uncut footage is understandable, given they had all served on Op Telic/Herrick (Iraq/Afghanistan) or BOTH & have therefore had guns pointed at them by experts!

  23. isaan dozer
    October 16, 2009 | 7:37 am

    another point worth noting is that the marine “Jack’had in fact done a runner.His defense of himself was ludicris because on that type of Jetski your legs do not hang over the side near the hull.They are positioned in front of you in the sitting position the same as riding a Wave or Mio.
    Guess its just nother case of the white trash walking all over Thais when they come here.

  24. isaan dozer
    October 16, 2009 | 7:42 am

    Then when they get caught out blame the Thai people and Thai culture in general for them having to actually take some responsibility for their own pathetic actions.
    Yes i know JJ was indeed stitching Jack up on the repair price and that means hes one of the Thais who give Thailand a bad reputation but you cant ignore the fact that maybe if Jack hadnt done a runner in the first place the price may have been less inflated.

    As for the title of the show ..why not just call it Tourists behaving badly …..or maybe whingers on tour:)

  25. John
    October 18, 2009 | 3:30 pm

    Very clearly an armed shakedown.
    Watch yourself in Thailand, even transiting the airport has its risks.
    Used to be reasonably OK but, by all accounts, not now.

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